The brand new genealogists all the consider this significant that Nicholas’ wife Clementia is integrated right here while the, significantly less than typical affairs, she would not be said. Whenever Susanna at particular afterwards day obtained over to a different guardian, the newest spouse of this protector was not mentioned.
This will indicate that Queen John invested some time indeed there and you may the possibility of an amorous liaison with Clementia is obtainable
Below listed here is a concept complex by some eminent genealogists, but it’s reasonable to declare that the newest findings was hotly competitive!
So it principle contributes to an excellent and you may curious ‘twist’ throughout the facts out of Joanna, which may focus admirers away from HBD!
On top, there is absolutely nothing to highly recommend one connection within hostage, Susanna off Wales and you will Clementia, partner off Nicholas de- Verdun. Yet not, the experience of some genealogists having foreign hostages, like youths, has been that they was have a tendency to set which have household members, if any was in fact available.
Jumping forward to 1236, there clearly was an entrance regarding the Tewkesbury annals which relates to Joanna’s mommy given that “Queen Clemencie!” They reads in part:
Now, it is known the mom from Joanna is actually titled Clementia (Clemence?
In cases like this the monk is obviously indulging inside medieval legalism. Before their particular dying, Joanna was actually legitimised from the Pope. On such basis as you to legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk plainly took they upon himself to elevate Joanna’s mom towards the condition away from Queen, since if their own mom ended up being Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact but not, that King John and you will Clementia were never married. Of the talking about Joanna’s mother because “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who filed Joanna’s passing was appearing his tall respect for Joanna, although not wanting to alter the genuine affairs.
As for the identity from Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she try this new child out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, off Wiltshire. One to genealogist considers it extreme you to definitely Clementia regarded off Wiltshire since he’s pointed out that Queen John got an effective accessory so you can one to county, it being the domestic out of their best allies, the fresh new Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found that title ‘Clementia’ is actually extremely rare among English noblewomen of this period. In one table away from ladies’ names that was collected, there were only two situations of your own term “Clementia” out-of all in all, 1407 ladies in this new try! The fact anybody called Clementia was of the Susanna is recognized as tall.
So! The evidence try effective, although not definitive, you hänen vastauksensa to definitely inside the 1228, Susanna, once the good hostage, received out over the fresh new care of her maternal granny, today partner out of Nicholas de Verdun!!
The Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ hold that Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 when you look at the Gwynnedd, Wales and you can died c. 1259 in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife inside the 1230 and had two college students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, created 1245, died 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
Needless to say, you can find avoid objections to all the that it conjecture! King John got of a lot mistresses and perhaps possibly seven illegitimate people. The caretaker away from Joanna could have been created circa 1172 and you can marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (14 yrs old during the time of her relationships to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the new known legitimate daughter off Nicholas de Verdun along with his partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event the Clementia try the mother regarding Joanna, she’d come in their particular late 30’s, very early 40’s when giving birth to help you Rohese! Perhaps not impossible, some state, but not likely.
